Avi Loeb: Aliens, Black Holes, and the Mystery of the Oumuamua | Lex Fridman Podcast #154

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Avi Loeb: Aliens, Black Holes, and the Mystery of the Oumuamua | Lex Fridman Podcast #154

1. Introduction

Avi Loeb is a world-renowned astrophysicist, astronomer, and cosmologist who has authored over 800 papers and written eight books. In 2017, a strange interstellar object, now named Amor Amor, was detected traveling through our solar system. Based on the evidence we have, it has strange characteristics which made it not like any asteroid or comet that we've seen before. Avi was one of the only world-class scientists who fearlessly suggested that we should be open-minded about whether it is naturally made or in fact is an artifact of an intelligent alien civilization. In fact, he suggested that the more likely explanation given the evidence is the latter hypothesis. We also talk about a lot of fascinating mysteries in our universe, including black holes, dark matter, the big bang, and close to speed of light space travel. The theme throughout is that in scientific pursuits, the weird things, the anomalies, the ideas that right now are considered taboo should not be ignored if we were to have a chance at finding the next big breakthrough, the next big paradigm shift, and also if we are to inspire the world with the power and beauty of science. ​

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阿维 · 勒布是世界著名的天体物理学家、天文学家和宇宙学家，他发表了800多篇论文，写了8本书。在2017年，一个奇怪的星际物体，现在被命名为爱情，被发现穿越我们的太阳系。根据我们所掌握的证据，它有一些奇怪的特征使它不像我们以前见过的任何小行星或彗星。阿维是世界级科学家中唯一无畏地建议我们应该对它是自然形成还是实际上是智慧外星文明的人工制品持开放态度的人之一。事实上，他认为，给出的证据更有可能的解释是后一种假设。我们也谈论了我们宇宙中许多迷人的神秘事物，包括黑洞、暗物质、大爆炸以及接近光速的太空旅行。贯穿始终的主题是，在科学追求中，如果我们有机会找到下一个重大突破，下一个重大范式转变，如果我们要用科学的力量和美来激励世界，那么现在被视为禁忌的奇怪事物、异常现象和想法都不应该被忽视。​

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2. Are we alone in the universe?

Avi Loeb is an astrophysicist who believes that it is arrogant to think that humans are the only intelligent life forms in the universe. He points to the fact that there are billions of galaxies and that each one contains billions of stars, many of which are similar to our own sun. He believes that we are just one of many forms of life in the universe and that we are not particularly special or interesting.​

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阿维 · 勒布是一位天体物理学家，他认为认为人类是宇宙中唯一的智慧生命形式是傲慢的。他指出，事实上有数十亿个星系，每个星系包含数十亿颗恒星，其中许多类似于我们的太阳。他认为，我们只是宇宙中众多生命形式中的一种，我们并不特别特别或有趣。​

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3. Consciousness

Avi Loeb and Lex Fridman discuss the possibility of finding evidence of dead civilizations on other planets. Loeb argues that even if these civilizations are short-lived, they may have made a significant impact on their environment. Fridman suggests that if we find evidence of such civilizations, we may be able to learn from their mistakes and avoid their fate.​

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阿维 · 勒布和莱克斯 · 弗里德曼讨论了在其他星球上发现死亡文明证据的可能性。勒布认为，即使这些文明是短暂的，他们可能已经对他们的环境产生了重大影响。弗里德曼认为，如果我们找到这种文明的证据，我们也许能够从他们的错误中吸取教训，避免他们的命运。​

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4. Sending digital copies of humans to space

Avi Loeb discusses the idea of using AI to create a NOx spaceship that would carry life as we know it to another planet. He argues that this would be a way of producing copies of life, just like the Gutenberg printing press. Lex Fridman agrees that this would be a way of preserving life, but points out that it doesn't have to be exact copies of humans that are sent.​

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阿维 · 勒布讨论了利用人工智能创造一艘氮氧化物飞船的想法，这艘飞船将把我们所知道的生命带到另一个星球。他认为，这将是一种生产生命副本的方式，就像古腾堡印刷机。莱克斯 · 弗里德曼同意这将是一种保存生命的方法，但他指出，这并不一定是送出的人类的精确复制品。​

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5. Oumuamua

In October of 2017, an object was spotted near Earth from outside of the solar system. This object was receding away from Earth at the time, and astronomers initially thought that it was just a piece of rock, similar to asteroids and comets that can be found within the solar system. However, upon further inspection, they realized that this object, dubbed "Oumuamua", looked nothing like anything they had seen before. Further study of Oumuamua revealed that it was tumbling and spinning every eight hours, and that the amount of sunlight it reflected was strange. These characteristics led many to believe that Oumuamua was not a natural object, but rather a piece of alien technology. However, there is no concrete evidence to support this claim.​

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2017年10月，在太阳系外发现了一个靠近地球的天体。这个天体当时正在远离地球，天文学家最初认为它只是一块岩石，类似于太阳系中可以发现的小行星和彗星。然而，经过进一步的检查，他们意识到这个被称为“ Oumuamua”的物体看起来和他们以前见过的任何东西都不一样。对 Oumuamua 的进一步研究表明，它每八个小时就会翻滚和旋转一次，而且它反射的阳光量也很奇怪。这些特征使许多人相信，奥穆阿穆阿不是一个自然物体，而是一件外星技术。然而，没有具体的证据来支持这种说法。​

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6. Alien space junk

Avi Loeb and Lex Fridman discuss the possibility that there are other intelligent life forms in the universe. Loeb posits that these life forms may have created their own habitat where they feel comfortable and have everything they need, and that they may not be interested in establishing communication with other forms of life. Fridman asks if this means that we would not be able to find out about them, and Loeb explains that they would still have to deposit trash, and that we could learn about them just as investigative journalists learn about celebrities by looking through their trash. Fridman asks if Loeb hopes that the trash is more interesting than a water bottle or a smartphone, and Loeb says that he hopes it is more sophisticated than a smartphone. The two discuss the possibility that the cocoon might be located in the outermost edge of the solar system.​

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阿维 · 勒布和莱克斯 · 弗里德曼讨论了宇宙中存在其他智慧生命形式的可能性。Loeb 认为，这些生命形式可能已经创造了它们自己的栖息地，在那里它们感到舒适，拥有它们需要的一切，而且它们可能对与其他生命形式建立交流不感兴趣。弗里德曼问，这是否意味着我们无法发现他们，勒布解释说，他们仍然必须存放垃圾，我们可以了解他们，正如调查记者通过查看他们的垃圾了解名人。Fridman 问 Loeb 是否希望垃圾比水瓶或智能手机更有趣，Loeb 说他希望垃圾比智能手机更复杂。两人讨论了茧可能位于太阳系最外缘的可能性。​

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7. What do aliens look like?

Avi Loeb and Lex Fridman discuss the possibility of civilizations that are much more advanced than our own. Loeb argues that such civilizations would be very different from anything we can imagine, and that we would be shocked to see them. Fridman agrees, and adds that even the individual creatures in such a civilization would have senses that are very different from our own.​

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阿维 · 勒布和莱克斯 · 弗里德曼讨论了比我们更先进的文明存在的可能性。勒布认为，这样的文明将是非常不同的任何我们可以想象的，我们会感到震惊，看到他们。弗里德曼对此表示赞同，并补充说，即使是这样一种文明中的个体生物，其感官也与我们人类大不相同。​

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8. Drake equation

The Drake equation is a framework for discussing the possible existence of alien civilizations. It is based on a number of factors, including the rate of star formation and the frequency of planets that could support life. According to the equation, it is difficult to estimate the number of alien civilizations that might be out there. However, the equation has limited validity and does not take into account other factors that could affect the ability to detect a signal from an alien civilization.​

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德雷克方程是讨论外星文明可能存在的一个框架。它是基于一些因素，包括恒星形成的速度和行星的频率，可以支持生命。根据这个公式，很难估计外星文明的数量。然而，该方程的有效性有限，没有考虑到可能影响探测外星文明信号能力的其他因素。​

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9. Industrial polution from aliens

Avi Loeb, an astronomy professor at Harvard, has suggested that searching for industrial pollution could be a more effective way of finding evidence for alien life than searching for oxygen. He argues that oxygen can be produced by natural processes, and that searching for industrial pollution would be a more reliable indicator of alien civilizations.​

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哈佛大学天文学教授阿维 · 勒布(Avi Loeb)提出，与寻找氧气相比，寻找工业污染可能是寻找外星生命证据的更有效方法。他认为氧气可以由自然过程产生，寻找工业污染将是外星文明更可靠的指标。​

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10. UFO sightings

There have been many reports of UFO sightings over the years, but most of them have been of poor quality or inconclusive. Avi Loeb believes that we should not assume that these sightings are of extraterrestrial origin until we have better evidence. He thinks it is most likely that they are artifacts of our instruments or natural phenomena that we are unable to understand. However, he believes that we should still investigate them, as they may pose a national security threat.​

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这些年来有很多关于 UFO 目击的报道，但是大多数质量都很差或者没有定论。Avi Loeb 认为，在我们有更好的证据之前，我们不应该假设这些目击事件是来自外星的。他认为它们很可能是我们仪器上的人工制品或者是我们无法理解的自然现象。然而，他认为我们仍然应该调查他们，因为他们可能会对国家安全构成威胁。​

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11. How long will human civilization last?

The Drake equation is a way to estimate the number of civilizations in our galaxy that might be able to communicate with us. It has a lot of uncertainty built into it, but each parameter is something that science can investigate. The length of time that civilizations last is the most uncertain parameter, but if we assume that civilizations last as long as they've been able to develop the means to destroy themselves, then we can expect them to last for a few centuries.​

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德雷克方程是一种估算银河系中可能与我们交流的文明数量的方法。它有很多内在的不确定性，但是每个参数都是科学可以研究的。文明存在的时间长度是最不确定的参数，但如果我们假设文明存在的时间，只要它们能够发展出自我毁灭的手段，那么我们就可以预期它们会存在几个世纪。​

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12. Radio signal from Proxima Centauri

Avi Loeb and Lex Fridman discuss the report of a possible radio signal detected from Proxima Centauri. Loeb argues that it is most likely a human-made noise, due to the short window in which we have been transmitting radio signals and the very narrow band of frequencies in which the signal was detected. Fridman agrees, noting that the signal was detected at the Parkes Observatory in Australia, and that it is unlikely to be from a civilization on Proxima B due to the Doppler effect.​

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阿维 · 勒布和莱克斯 · 弗里德曼讨论了从比邻星探测到的一个可能的无线电信号的报告。Loeb 认为这很可能是人为的噪音，因为我们传输无线电信号的窗口很短，而且检测到信号的频带非常窄。弗里德曼对此表示赞同，他指出，这个信号是在澳大利亚的帕克斯天文台探测到的，由于多普勒效应，它不太可能来自比邻星 B 上的文明。​

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13. Breakthrough Starshot project

In 2015, Avi Loeb was approached by Yuri Milner with an interesting proposition- to lead a project that would allow humans to visit the nearest stars within our lifetime. The project, called Star Shot, would use light sail technology to propel a spacecraft to a fifth of the speed of light. After six months of research with students and postdocs, Loeb and his team arrived at the conclusion that this was the only technology that could make the project possible. Since the Apollo era, people have lost excitement for space exploration. However, Loeb believes that it is time for us to venture out into the solar system and beyond. With the help of the Star Shot project, humans may finally be able to colonize other habitable planets.​

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2015年，尤里 · 米尔纳(Yuri Milner)向阿维 · 勒布(Avi Loeb)提出了一个有趣的建议——领导一个能让人类在有生之年访问最近恒星的项目。该项目被称为“星际射击”，将使用光帆技术将航天器推进到光速的五分之一。经过六个月的学生和博士后研究，Loeb 和他的团队得出结论，这是唯一的技术，可以使该项目成为可能。自从阿波罗时代以来，人们对太空探索已经失去了兴趣。然而，勒布认为，现在是我们冒险进入太阳系以及更远的地方的时候了。在“星球大战”项目的帮助下，人类可能最终能够殖民其他可居住的行星。​

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14. Space race

The debate organized by IBM and Bloomberg News centered on the question of whether the space race between the US and China is good for humanity. All the other debaters were worried about the military threats. Avi Loeb couldn't understand what they're talking about because military threats come from hovering above the surface of the earth, and space is all about the third dimension, getting far from earth. Space is all about feeling that we are one civilization, in fact, not fighting each other, just going far and having aspirations for something that goes beyond military threats. The commercial interest is what drives space exploration, and nations can sign treaties, but they may not be able to prevent commercial entities from launching into space.​

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由 IBM 和彭博新闻社组织的辩论集中在美国和中国之间的太空竞赛是否对人类有益的问题上。所有其他的辩论者都担心军事威胁。阿维 · 勒布无法理解他们在说什么因为军事威胁来自地球表面上空的盘旋太空就是第三维度远离地球。太空就是感觉我们是一个文明，事实上，不是互相争斗，只是走得更远，有超越军事威胁的抱负。商业利益驱动着太空探索，各国可以签署条约，但它们可能无法阻止商业实体发射到太空。​

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15. Human space exploration

Avi Loeb and Lex Fridman discuss the possibility of humans adapting to and living in space. Loeb argues that humans have adapted to different environments on Earth, so there is no reason why they couldn't do the same in space. Fridman brings up the issue of cosmic rays and the damage they could do to the human body. Loeb acknowledges this as a problem, but believes it is something that can be overcome with time and research.​

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阿维 · 勒布和莱克斯 · 弗里德曼讨论了人类适应和生活在太空中的可能性。Loeb 认为人类已经适应了地球上不同的环境，所以他们没有理由不能在太空中做同样的事情。弗里德曼提出了宇宙射线的问题以及它们可能对人体造成的损害。勒布承认这是一个问题，但相信这是可以通过时间和研究来克服的。​

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16. Social media is a threat to society

The chapter begins with a discussion of the things that worry Avi Loeb the most. He cites the example of people paying attention to how many likes they have on Twitter as something that is more harmful than helpful. He goes on to say that people should keep their eyes on the evidence and not on the confirmation of what they already believe. Loeb believes that this is the biggest fault that people have when it comes to science. Lex Fridman then asks Loeb about his thoughts on the great filters that destroy intelligent civilizations. Loeb responds by saying that the thing that worries him the most is that people are not paying attention to the evidence. He believes that this is a major problem for human civilization and that it is holding science back.​

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本章开始讨论的事情，阿维勒布最担心。他举了一个例子，人们关注自己在 Twitter 上得到了多少个“喜欢”，认为这样做弊大于利。他接着说，人们应该关注证据，而不是确认他们已经相信的东西。Loeb 认为这是人们在科学上最大的错误。莱克斯 · 弗里德曼接着问洛布关于那些破坏智慧文明的伟大过滤器的想法。Loeb 回答说，最让他担心的是人们没有注意到证据。他认为，这是人类文明的一个主要问题，并且阻碍了科学的发展。​

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17. Are humans ready for discovering an alien civilization?

Avi Loeb: Aliens, Black Holes, and the Mystery of the Oumuamua | Lex Fridman Podcast #154 ​

Avi Loeb: Aliens, Black Holes, and the Mystery of the Oumuamua | Lex Fridman Podcast #154